My Stutter: Life of Verbal Turbulence Comic Book Launch - LIVE from Octavia's Bookshelf [Part 2]

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

  Hello, welcome back to Proud Stutter. I'm your host, Maya Chupkov. This episode is part two of our two part series on Proud Stutter's live event in Los Angeles at Octavia's Bookshelf. We didn't want anyone to miss out, so I turned the audio from the event into a two parter. And if you didn't listen to part one first, you can just look for it in our podcast feed.

It was released. two weeks ago. And for this part two, like we did for part one, Julian and I shared some reflections before we go into the second half of the live event portion. And as a reminder, Julian is a board member at Proudstutter and appeared on Proudstutter's bonus episode back in November, 2023 as well.

I also wanted to know that the audience questions, we didn't have a mic for them, so it may be hard to hear a little bit what the audience was asking, but hopefully once we get into our answers, it's more clear and it's not too confusing. So, yeah. Just wanted to give a heads up about that. And one more update I wanted to share with you all is we have achieved a huge milestone for the Proudstetter documentary.

We are filming, um, our documentary, the first scene, um, the first few scenes, um, in about a little under two weeks. And honestly, like we could not have gotten this far without you. We're just taking it day by day. And. Honestly, like all your support for proud to stutter and for the documentary has really made us starting to see Um this project come to life and i'm just i'm so excited so Tune in because we're going to have more updates and future ways to support the rest of the documentary project Um, and without further ado here is part two

I'm Maya Chupkov, and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it, one conversation at a time.

Julian Benabides:

Before I read just a little about me, um, if my life were a Hollywood story, movie. Act one would be, he stutters so badly he can't talk. Two would be, he falls into a deep depression. Act three would be, he overcomes his struggle and speaks to auditoriums full of people. That's a fun movie, but that's not all. And I feel like that misses the most important point of having a stutter.

See, when I was younger, I thought that my stutter was my enemy. I thought it was the monster in the shadows that would jump out at the absolute worst moment and just ruin my day. And fairly recently, I'm 37, so pretty recently, I realized that my stutter is not My enemy, my stutter is my teacher. My stutter taught me courage in the face of overwhelming odds.

My stutter taught me kindness for people who struggle with their own problems. My stutter taught me patience for people who frustrate me. And there are many, um, um, and I feel like that, that matters. How can I say, um, I had this in my phone, but my phone's recording. So you're going to have to bear with me.

Um, so I feel like that is what that. Perfect little Hollywood arc misses is your stutter. My stutter was not this enemy to be defeated, but a pretty important part of my life. And it wasn't until I learned to love myself, all of myself, stutter included, that my movie was completed. You know, that my happy ending was there because overcoming the stutter was not, not the end.

I needed to love myself. And that is what I got from being part of proud stutter. So, that being said, let me read that to you, out of the comic. I grew up with a terrible stutter. It was so bad, I couldn't answer the phone or say I love you back to my parents. And I didn't correct people when they mispronounced my name.

And my last name is easy to mispronounce. I didn't talk to other kids at school, afraid I would stutter. When I couldn't say thank you to waiters in restaurants, my parents scolded me for my rudeness. My self esteem suffered. Why can't my voice just work? Why can't I be normal? Nobody else stutters like I do.

Why am I so broken? I hate myself. I hate myself. I hate myself. Working in college forced me to speak with people all day. I practiced speaking and doing vocal exercises. I researched tactics other stutterers used, practiced again and again, and slowed down, took a deep breath before I spoke. After understanding my stutter better, I learned to take control of my voice.

I eventually learned how to stutter less and became a public speaker as a school director in Shanghai. But I never learned to embrace my stutter until now. I found stuttering communities of people like me. There were others who knew my long journey, my battles and ups and downs, and I learned to love my stutter and myself.

Thank you. Applause

Maya:

So, I actually read this passage to my co workers recently, um, and when I read it to them, it was during a staff meeting, I like, I could not read, like, I was stuttering every day. So we'll see how this goes. Um, so this is the passage. This is the one I wrote, and that was the one you wrote. Um, and then Indy Ho, again, I just wanted to say, she's so talented, like, look at this.

This is insane. So, anyway, um, In ca la la. In kindergarten, I stuttered a lot, and kids would make fun of me. And in first grade, I was pulled out of class to attend speech therapy. As I worked out of the class, as I walked out of the classroom, all eyes were on me. I went home to my mom and cried my eyes out.

However, stuttering led me to find forms of expression outside of speech. Succeeding in sports and dancing made me feel a sense of comfort for the first time ever. It was my dream to become a broadcast journalist. I remember being mesmerized, pointing to the pretty lady on tv, interviewing Kobe Bryant and saying, I wanna do that In high school, I was given the opportunity to try broadcast journalism, but I chickened out.

I didn't want my entire school knowing I had a stutter for a while. I ignored the urge to be on a mic until I decided to start my own podcast on speech diversity. Now I'm fulfilling my lifelong dream. Thank you.

That was great. What? That was great. Oh, thanks. Um, okay, so we're gonna just have a little discussion and kind of interview each other and then open it up. Um, because going through this experience of writing this comic book, it was kind of, I don't know, it was intense. Um, and I'm getting like emotional thinking about it because I just like, I don't know.

It's just, it's a lot writing about something so personal. And I feel like even though I have a podcast about stuttering, um, writing is so much more personal in a way, cause you're like having to really sit with your thoughts. Um, and so I, I guess I just wanted to ask you, Julian, um, like Like, why is a comic book so important?

Like, why is that medium so important?

Julian:

A comic book is visual and beautiful and bright and wonderful to behold. And I think as a stutterer, um, you sort of get used to the shadows. And it's like, don't look at me. I'm, I want to be invisible. Like I'm ashamed. And with something this bright, it's hard to ignore this.

And I, I love the idea of something that is so visual that makes you look at it. And it's like, I'm here. I don't care. I'm here. Um, and I think that. That's a big part of why I love the fact that we did a visual medium like a comic book. Um, I, I love to write. Writing matters a lot to me. Um, but there's something, the cliche of the, um, the bookworm, quiet author who's too afraid to talk, um, And I, I, I just, I love that this is just so bright and loud and stutterers, it would be nice for us to feel more comfortable being loud and present and take up space.

Um, so that's, that's what, um, a comic book means, means to me. Um, why don't you tell me, uh, tell everyone, uh, what the process was like making, making the comic book.

Maya:

Yeah. So, um, as Jennifer was saying, I. Um, I actually first met Kimberly who, um, I, I think she had to leave. Um, but that, that's how I first was introduced to design matters.

I was actually on a call for my day job, the common cause, and I don't know why, but like, Proud stutter always seems like sneak in to like every aspect of my life. And so I was just like telling her about proud stutter and she was like, Oh my God, that would be perfect to collaborate with like our illustrations class.

And so I actually spent like 10 weeks, um, with an illustrations class at, um, art center with their, Design matters students and I spent like 10 weeks with these students and like seeing what artwork they had and what they came up with. And I, it was such an amazing experience. And then there was this opportunity to apply to SAPI IDD is that that matter hook grant.

Um, and we applied for. A grant and and got it and like I said, like this is what came out of that to grant and the process of writing the comic book and I've always been so So like self doubting about my writing skill like my writing like I don't know like I just don't think I'm a great writer. And so being able to write this comic book and being able to work with such a talented illustrator, like Indie and like someone like the Julian, it was.

Such a therapeutic experience. And I want to do more comic books. Like I want to collaborate with more people who stutter, um, and make more of these, because let me tell you, when we show these comic books to people, they freak out. Like, they're just like, Oh my God, like, this is so cool. Like we were just at an event in San Jose.

Um, and it was, uh, a focus, a group of people who stuttered and, and parents who stuttered at a local high school. And we gave out all of the comic books there. And, and I just, all these young people just grabbed it and started reading it. And I was just like, this is so cool. So it, yeah, it's been a really amazing experience.

Um, so the Julian, can you talk about, cause I actually first met Julian at a bookstore in San Francisco and now we're here. And so I'm wondering if you can like talk about that whole, how like from stepping into that bookstore, not knowing what brought you there. Well, who I was and just didn't know what you were walking into to now you're here.

Julian:

Uh, yeah. I, I imagine that my experience is maybe not that, uh, different from a lot of people here in the audience. Um, uh, uh, um, there was an event at a bookstore, uh, a year, year ago, a year and a half ago. Uh, whenever. Um, and it was for Proud Stutter. There was a panelist of three stutterers on the stage speaking, and that was the first time I'd ever seen stutterers speaking in a venue.

I, I had, it was three of them, and they were like, And, uh, one of the stutterers was more covert, like myself. Um, uh, the other two were a little bit more overt, and it was more obvious that they stuttered. And I was amazed. I, I, I, I, I literally cried, uh, when I was there. I remember, I, I asked one of the panelists a question.

As he was talking to me, I was like, Okay, thank you. Um, cause it was so emotional. I, I had never talked I'd never felt that I could show this part of myself to other people. This was this thing that I hated just viscerally, brutally. And here it was like, these people are like, no, I stutter. Like, let me share this with you.

Let me share this part of myself with you. And I was like, okay. Um, and so, um, I got in touch with Maya. Um, we did some, I went to some other events. And I remember reaching out to her and saying like, Hey, this matters to me. I want to help. How can I help? And, uh, we've been working together ever since. And it's, uh, been one of the best things that I've done.

And I'm, I'm. Truly amazed and humbled and happy to see like other people who care about this and people that it matters to. And I, I hope that the same joy that I got from, uh, seeing a speaker who, who stuttered, I, I hope that other people get just some, a modicum of that, of that joy. So, um, yeah, that's.

Should we open it up? Uh, yeah, so we've been kind of hogging the stage a little bit. Um, are there any, uh, questions to, to me or Maya about Proud Stutter or the comic book or stuttering or anything? I don't know. Life advice. Yeah.

Maya:

Yeah. I mean, the, the last time I took speech therapy was like 20 years ago. Um, so the speech therapist I had was. My mom found her off of the Stuttering Foundation website. And it was only fluency shaping. And actually one of the things my speech therapist told my mom is that if, if the speech therapist would have seen me earlier, she would have been able to like cure me of stuttering.

But a weird thing happened when I entered like the clinical setting, like in the speech therapy room, I actually didn't stutter at all. Like it was this weird psychological thing that that happened where I was able to like. I guess hide my stutter more when I was like put on the spot and then I'd like go into the real world and at school and I would stutter a lot and it was just the most confusing thing.

Cause like when I entered that room, I just like was able to hide it more. And so after speech therapy, I was able to hide it more and I'd hide it well at home and I had thought it was gone too in a weird way, even though deep down I knew it wasn't, but I just kind of wanted to believe it. And then it just pop up.

Again, and then there would be spells where I just stuttered a lot and I couldn't get my words out So I think speech therapy, the first time I met a speech therapist who stuttered was, um, at the very beginning of my podcasting journey. Um, his name is Bailey Levis and I actually interviewed him on the podcast and I was just like, Oh my God, thank God.

And he's like, there's more of us. And I'm like, what? There's more speech therapists who stutter. And so I think stuttering speech therapy has come a long way. And like, Not just it being around fluency shaping, but really about what does the person want from therapy? Is it like confidence? Is it like they want to just get through a present dictation?

Is it, you know, like it's more goal oriented now. Um, and so that's kind of how I see speech therapy has evolved. And now I. I speak a lot more highly of speech therapists, just because I know there's so many amazing ones out there, including a future one in the room. I'm sure there's maybe a few, but, but yeah, so, um, I, I never went to speech therapy.

I wish I had when I was a kid, I think it would have made me, uh, less, um, frustrated with myself. Um, but I got, I got better. Through my struggle with stuttering by being a teacher and by being in front of people every single day for, you know, five days a week and whatnot. Um, but yeah, I definitely wish I had when I was gone to speech therapy and I was younger.

Um, any other questions?

Maya:

Yeah, so, um, I love the term speech diversity because it can capture so many different types of people. Like, I've had people write me or say that, oh yeah, like I have a very thick accent and like I'd identify with the term speech diversity. Um, or someone, um, that like I've had a few people with lisps.

Reach out to me, people with Tourette's as well. And so, yeah, I think this term speech diversity really has a wide umbrella. And there's actually this organization called Communication First. Um, and they kind of. They advocate on behalf of people with communication disorders. And so I've learned a lot from them because, you know, I'm really knowledgeable around stuttering, but not as much around the broader communication disorder community.

And so there are a lot of people who outside of stuttering that really, um, They, they like the term, um, another community that I've. become very much building a lot of collaboration with is those on the spectrum with au ti ti tism. Um, I know a few autistic people who stutter, also ADHD, um, there's a lot of intersections there.

So, there's just a lot of intersectionality when it comes to stuttering and other Speech. Uh, one just fantastic answer. That's amazing. Um, I think one thing, one small concept to build on top of what Maya said. Uh, I think we sort of, maybe we were taught to think that there's normal and there's weird. And if you don't speak right, then you're weird.

And it's just, those are the two camps. And I think that's something that I've been, uh, processing as a person who was like, grew up thinking, well, I'm just weird. I'm just broken. I'm just not right. It's no, it's just a different way of talking. Uh, there is no like good and bad, weird and normal. It's just, Speech diversity.

There's, there's a whole number of ways that people can communicate. Some people are mute and they have sign language. Some people, um, stutter and it takes them a little bit longer. Some people have an accent. And it's all this beautiful array of communication.

Julian:

That's a, that's a good question. And we had thought about that with the comic book. Like, how do we, Show a visual representation of stuttering and we went back and forth and we had designs that we tossed out and my design was it was too complicated because the way that I imagined a visual representation of stuttering was You know how you have like a speech bubble in a comic book where there's just this I wanted to have like bright purple and red and weird fractured ones.

And that ultimately got shut down because it was too much. Um, but we, we attempt to do that in the comic book here by, by showing, um, yeah, I don't know what page you're showing, but, um, yeah, so the most common forms of stuttering, we have a page where kind The repetitions, prolongations and blocks. And so we had Indy illustrate some of the face expressions that can come from, from being a stutter and also like.

Something I do is blinking while stuttering sometimes or like moving my hands a lot. Like I've been on zooms with Matt a lot for work. I don't know if he realizes this, but I'm like constantly moving my hands. Um, or sometimes I'm like scrunching my face like this. So. This, this kind of a page is a way to like illustrate what it can look like.

And of course it's animals, so it's not really, you know, but it's, it's trying. And I think we did a good job question.

A good example is we went to this event, um, at high school in San Jose and there, and it was a support group for families and their kids. And so there were like a bunch of kids there and we just gave them comic books and they loved it. So that was one way. To kind of use already like who are the people already connected to young people who stutter and how can we partner with them?

Um, there's also, I don't know if you guys know this, but there's an LA children's book festival that happens every year. And so we definitely want to be there maybe next year or this year. Um, and then of course schools is like. something that we really want to bring the comic book to schools. Um, I don't really know too many people that work in school, so that's definitely going to be something that I'll have to like work on.

Um, but, but yeah, I, I like, I, I definitely think we want to bring this comic book to more young people. Cause as you said, it's like, I really think. young people can really benefit from this because they'll be able to see that themselves in a book and even maybe show their teachers and have their teachers learn because I am the same.

Like I've had so many. Like one of my speech professors at, in college said I used liked it too much as well. So so yeah, there's there's a lot of education and

I Can fantastic answer I can't I think something else To add onto that is just doing things right here. Um, because hopefully teachers listen to the podcast. Hopefully friends, teachers listen to the podcast. Like this is such a small, but growing community. And I think stuff like this is how. We accomplish stuff like that is just getting the word out that here's this organization called proud stutter.

And they're trying to communicate with people who want to learn about stuttering. And if you're a teacher, if you're a parent, like check out the podcast and learn some of these things. And that's, that's part of the process is just getting the word out to more people. And thank you for a great question.

Any others?

Julian:

That's a good question. I hadn't, I hadn't really thought about that, but I remember like when I was younger, I was so, so angry about my stutter that I remember like I would like physically slap myself when I stuttered like stop, stop it. And I get so angry that I didn't know what to do. And it was just rage like self, self hate.

And, uh, with zero patience at all, just like you, you stutter, just like, ah, stop. And now, and also in, um, the 10 years ago thing, like I would hide it. I would, um, be ashamed and just keep it down my deep, dark secret. And then now it's just like, no, I stutter sometimes. It happens, it's okay. We're all still friends.

And what's sort of comical about that is that now that I've embraced it, I've, it's less present. Um, and I feel much more comfortable speaking. And so it's just, it's less, less awkward. Um, pervasive, um, but I think, uh, 10 years ago, I was much less forgiving, much less patient, much less kind. And I sort of clung to this concept of normal, normal versus weird, uh, binary, good, bad.

And the whole concept of speech diversity really helped me to, uh, sort of find self forgiveness and patience and kindness and just, um, be okay with myself. Yeah, I think for me, avoiding was a big thing. Um, like just going back to my story, I was part of Associated Student Body and in high school and senior year, I was assigned broadcast journalism person.

And so I was supposed to like, I don't know if I have my friends, Caitlin, who you're here, who I have known for since like We were little, I don't even know if she knows this story, but, um, but yeah, I was supposed to go and announce like things. to the school and I was so excited about it. But, but then I, I always had this thing in the back of my head, like, what if I stutter in front of the whole school?

Like I didn't want to be the laughing joke. And so, um, so I just didn't do it and yeah, I don't know. It just, I didn't do a lot in my life because of my stutter. And I'm thankful now, cause that, I'm here, I feel like I'm in a good spot, but like, I just remember so many things I avoided, cause I just didn't want people to find out that I stutter, and I didn't want them to judge me, so, yeah,

sorry, I'm just like, yeah, um, yeah.

Media and written word, there's so many different things that you could say, or that you could sort of, uh, For somebody, a takeaway about stuttering, and I'm wondering just, I guess with this comic and maybe with the documentary, Um, yeah, just what are some of the things that when people come across this, like, what do you hope they take away?

That's a big answer. Um, I, I sort of, Sort of, uh, think about the previous question on top of this about what I have learned from being part of Proud Stutter. And I think it's the thing that I want people to take away from this is doing away with the old notion of normal speak and weird speak, doing away with the old notion, uh, like what my experience in speech therapy that we have to fix you, you know, like, you're broken and we got to fix you like, like, No, that's, that is bullshit.

That is complete bullshit. Um, I, I think it's fine to practice fluency. It's fine to work on getting more comfortable with public speaking, but the idea of a person being broken or abnormal or weird or needing to hide, um, I, I think that needs to be done away with, and that's something that I've learned, um, personally from working with Proud Slatter in the last 18 months or whatever, and I think that's something that I hope to, uh, convey to others, uh, um, and, um, To convey to other kids when we were at the at that event in San Jose, uh, last month, we were talking with young people who I think had never really had a conversation about this.

And I had not, I had never talked with young people before about stuttering or my stutter. It's only been adults. Uh, and it was just so powerful. Uh, I felt that it was powerful for them to just have an adult listen and be patient through their stuttering and stammering and not like try and rush them or guess what they're going to say.

And just like practice patience, you know? Yeah.

Um, yeah, I think the goal of the documentary is because there's so many people who, um, Yeah, there's just so many people who stutter out there that feel alone, feel like there's no one else like them out there. And even if they listen to, I don't know, it's just like, it's such a deeply shameful thing. And so the, so my goal with like the documentary is just to.

Tell stories that haven't been told yet in the starting community, right? Like we've seen a lot of people who stutter, but like, I want to tell those stories that are like hidden and like, that I think really are going to make an impact on the younger generation and families and. And so, so that's really my, my, my goal is just to like help people come out of the shadows slowly, slowly.

Cause it took me 29 years to do that. So I know it's a journey. I met someone, he's 50 and he's barely, he barely like until he heard me on MPR, he didn't think he had a stutter. So like these, these things are so deeply hidden and just pushed down and, um, and so it's just telling more stories so that maybe this one will be able to like.

Be that thing that will help someone kind of take that next step. I just want to say, sorry, I want to say a huge thank you to Michael. Who's been doing sound right here. Thank you, Michael. He's going to make this podcast ready so I can share it out on a proud stutter. So thank you, Michael. Thank you for coming everyone.

And that's it for this episode of Proud Stutter. This episode of Proud Stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Sound for this episode was captured by Michael Castaneda. Our music was composed by Augusto Diniz and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at proudstutter.org. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you're listening to this podcast. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Want to volunteer for Proud Stutter? There are a ton of opportunities to get involved, from helping out the podcast, to event planning, the documentary, and advocacy.

The best way to volunteer is by reaching out to me at info at proudstutter. org. Until we meet again, thanks for listening, be proud, and be you.